Ken: Thank-you plenty to have discussing your pursuit with our team
Many thanks for the price which i had not viewed prior to
I am not sure should you have access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, because was composed since the a reference to possess Us americans that have colonial forefathers from Plantagenet ancestry. He offers among their proofs that Joanna try the latest mom regarding Gwladus Ddu the fact Llewelyn offered the latest attributes regarding Knighton and you will Norton castles from inside the Shropshire in order to Ralph Mortimer whenever he and you may Gwladus was indeed hitched. It might was basically unlawful to own Llewelyn giving Joanna’s property to help you an illegitimate daughter (or person who was not a child out of Joanna). The fresh functions out-of Norton and Knighton stayed in the Mortimer members of the family thereafter. The fresh new quote are, “When the brand new Queen render Residential property so you’re able to a man which have a good woman from his kindred inside the honest relationships, additionally the lady dyeth instead of procedure, the person about Kings instance will perhaps not hold on a minute to possess his lifestyle, as the woman was the cause of this new provide.” To put it differently, the fresh services might have reverted back into this new top just before they might have been provided to a baby who was simply not Joanna’s.
Hi, Marilyn, I did not have access to brand new Plantaganet Ancestry from the Doug Richardson, but did gain access to the numerous talks of your and you can their theories with other genealogists (certain to possess him, but the majority of plus facing). I do believe, once i manufactured in my personal prior report, one exactly what swings they for me personally(Joanna as the mom regarding Gwladus), ‘s the transfer of your functions you speak about so you’re able to Ralph de Mortimer upon his ed a couple of the people ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I cannot that is amazing when the Gwladus had been the new ded their children hence. Despite the arguments between your eminent genealogists We discuss more than, you will find an over-all consensus one Gwladus Ddu might be relatively identified as the fresh daughter out-of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth because of the Joanna, child (next legitimised) out of John, Queen out-of England. I would ike to bring it possibility to trust Sharon (in a contact to me) you to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian try because of the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and thus being bloodstream sis in order to Gruffudd. We feet which partially to your a contemporary listing utilized in ‘Royal and other Historic emails Illustrative of leadership out of Henry 111,’ modified by the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step 1. On users five-hundred-503 is the transcript away from a unique letter old Marshall, Earl regarding Pembroke, so you can King Henry 111. Within letter, Marshall covers their siege of one’s castles away from Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. The guy listing the individuals the guy found in the castle O’Realy whenever they surrendered, they incorporated: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi ainsi que Thomae ….” I am informed this particular means that we have here Gwenllian, daughter away from Prince llywelyn, exactly who seems to be called ‘cousin off Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd as this new illegitimate young buck from Llywelyn, it is removed you to definitely ‘de- patre et matre’ implies that Gwenllian and Gruffudd was in fact complete bloodstream brother and you can aunt. Got Gwenllian become Joanna’s daughter hence Queen Henry’s relative, certainly Marshall would have said on that fact? So it inability off de- Lacy’s wife just like the king’s niece, try pulled as near specific evidence one Gwenllian was not the fresh daughter of one’s king’s brother Joanna.
This type of characteristics was basically section of Joanna’s maritagium away from her dad King John
Ken: Many thanks for you to reference to Gwenllian. I’m certainly not an expert genealogist, but I really do enough search by myself contours. I think some of the “pros” are really jealous and crazy of any most other (no less than seemingly ways in a few of the things it article). You’ll find points that our company is not probably see confidently on the members of the fresh new MA while they don’t remain public record information such as for example we do now, therefore genealogists and historians have to use their very best view within the sorting some thing away. In reality, public information try a pretty “new” build – of several claims here in the us don’t keep facts from births and you can fatalities before the very early 1900’s. We end up in multiple ancestry communities in which I have had to help you establish eleven otherwise a dozen years, and you will believe me it is hard. Thus i very appreciate the challenge regarding contrasting MA forefathers. (And the unfortunate question is the fact that the records that exist toward MA is actually of your royalty and you may nobility – nothing after all on the common someone).
